A torque-sensor is more expensive, but all of the modern versions that are readily available provide an “instant-on / instant-off” experience when you start and stop pedaling. Take A Sneak Peak At The Movies Coming Out This Week (8/12) “Look for the helpers” – Celebrities helping out amid Texas storm The quality and efficiency of the FET, and also the size of the FET has an effect on how many total max-amps can be flowed through them (without any overheating). You must log in or register to reply here. The one place where you can consistently find the stronger (and more expensive) 10-spline “ISIS” format for the spindles is on serious off-road bicycles. For instance, when it comes to a “street legal” electric bike, the USA has a 750W power limit. The latest incarnation of the motor does pretty much everything better than its predecessors. It makes sense. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The pic below shows that the factory controller for the Ultra uses 12 MOSFET’s. Pic courtesy of robocam. [edit: angry emails have informed me that Oregon and Virginia have a street-legal power limit of 1,000W]. Rev-becca demonstrates the installation of a Bafang mid-mount motor. Another thing that is worth noting is that the BBS02 in the picture above uses what’s called “Surface Permanent Magnets” / SPM on the rotor, and the Ultra (along with the BBSHD) uses a style that inserts the magnets a small distance away from the surface of the rotor. In fact, some countries in Europe only allow PAS. One of my favorite writers is Karl from ElectricBike-Blog.com. The BBSHD is often run at 1500W, so the Bafang Ultra should easily be able to handle 2000W or more. This style is being seen more often these days, and it’s called an “Interior Permanent Magnet” motor / IPM. The stator has 12 concentrated coils, and the rotor has 8 magnets (4 pole-pairs). That being said, it would be easier to splice-in an external controller to use 20S / 72V, if you wanted to experiment…. It is reported to provide 160-Nm of torque, and it also provides that power up to 28-MPH (45 km/h), which coincidentally is the street-legal power application limit in the USA. Notice the “63V” capacitor. The faster the magnets pass by each other, the shorter the pulses of watts are…that are applied to the electromagnets. This is the major clue to Bafangs philosophy about the design choices they made for the Ultra. Having more stages of reduction will cost more, add complexity, add mass, and add friction. The diameter of the BBSHD would be about halfway between the two. Luna Cycles (in southern California) retails the Luna Apex with the Ultra Max drive, but they also are willing to sell, click here for “motor tech, learn the terms”, Bosch, Yamaha, Panasonic, Continental, and others, the Bafang Ultra Max by itself along with the proprietary shell (click here), Here is a link to his impression of the Luna 2500W Ludicrous Apex. Bafangs internal labeling system calls this the MM G510.1000, and it’s design makes several improvements over my favorite drive, the BBSHD. The benefit of a conventional mid-drive kit is that it can slide into the “bottom bracket” of almost any bicycle frame that you like. You could even buy a second kit so you had a back-up of spare parts. It may not display this or other websites correctly. For instance, if you are looking for an obscure offset in a pair of crank-arms, the square taper spindles (frequently found on street bicycles) will have the best selection…including cranks made of titanium, carbon fiber, aluminum, and steel. The Bafang Ultra Max was first shown at the Taipei bicycle show in 2017, and it was marketed as being more powerful and less expensive than the popular Bosch mid drive. The Bafang or Tongheng mid-drive motor would not be a straightforward fit, as your bike has a FSA BB30 pressfit bottom bracket and the inner dimensions of the BB shell are 42mm. Most of them even sense the amount of pedal pressure that the rider is applying, and then it adds motor power accordingly. However, it can also allow the drive system to provide higher wheel-torque with the same size of motor. Most of our readers are based in the USA, and if one of them wants to look at possibly buying an ebike with the Bafang Ultra Max mid-drive, Luna Cycles in southern California should be your first stop. Be aware, when Luna has them in stock, they often get snapped up very quickly. Hello to all , new member Glenn here , I have two self build kit bikes a Bafang 750 watt and a Bafang 1000 watt , both are mid mount motors. Testing the Bafang Ultra mid drive Motor. Then…Canada, Switzerland, and Austria have a 500W power level, and many other countries have a ridiculously low 250W power level. Pic courtesy of endless-sphere member Ivanovich_k. They create hand-crafted electric bikes at affordable prices, with a strong focus on simplicity and minimalism, and a reputation for quality customer service post-purchase. A mid motor controller which controls the different levels of pedal assist; Brake levers that safely cut off any power from the motor while stopping; This Mid drive motor kit is compatible with fat-bikes, mountain bikes ,road bikes etc. Just keep in mind the legal aspect. BAFANG BBS02B 48V 750W Mid Drive Electric Bike Motor Ebike Conversion Kit Mid Motor for Mountain Bike Road Bike with Optional 48V 11.6Ah/13Ah/17.5Ah and 52V 14Ah Battery Brand: BAFANG 4.6 out of 5 stars 318 ratings The Bafang label claims a 1000W power level, but they are actually being run at over 2000W, and THAT…is not street legal anywhere! The affordable PAS solution is to have a “speed sensor”, where pedaling causes a disc with several embedded magnets to pass by some type of fixed magnetic sensor. Using lots of small pulses ‘can’ provide the same total power that is applied, compared to using fewer long pulses, but…using long “on” pulses will heat up the MOSFET’s in the controller, and also the electromagnets in the stator. This builder found a titanium frame that uses the Bafang Ultra Max mounting shell. The second helical gearset is  66T/25T  for 2.6:1 . Over time, I believe more retailers will begin carrying a model of ebike with the Bafang Ultra Max mid-drive, and as I find them, I will add some to this list. Permanent magnets can lose their magnetic power if they get too hot, so…by doing this, you can use more “temporary peak” amps without overheating the magnets. This design allows the magnets to run cooler, which is important because one of the limitations on how many amps a motor can use is the heat that is generated by “eddy currents”. Most “Pedal Assist Sensor-PAS” designs allow the bike to add power by simply sensing when you are pedaling (no hand throttle). And most of all – ride safe! Not only that, it has ISIS cranks and torque-sensing, so…let’s get started. A Bafang mid-drive motor kit will include the following components: A motor unit with integrated controller (500W or 750W) A display (DPC18, P850C, P860C, 750C, SW102, C965 or C961) The BBS02 is on the left (known to run well at 1000W), with the Ultra on the right. Frey was an early adopter of the Bafang Ultra Max drive, as seen in the pic above. The 27.5-inch tire version of the Frey full suspension frame. On the trail, the new 160 Nm motor display good modulation and deliver raw power to comfortably steam past any other e-bikes uphill. Pic courtesy of Daxxie. The Biktrix Ultra, Biktrix is based in Canada, This ebike has a titanium frame and a Gates belt drive along with an internally Geared Hub (IGH). Bafang M500 mid drive motor, 630Wh battery, Shimano components $3,490 2021 iZip Path Plus Step-Thru Bosch Active Line mid drive motor and battery, Front suspension, fendes $2,400 We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. However, it can take a 1/4 turn of the pedals to engage, and a half-second of stopped pedals to dis-engage. The motor Kv is 55-RPM’s per volt, and the triple-reduction between the motor and cranks is 18:1. Well, actually…everyone likes it, but…off-roaders are consistently willing to pay more for it. “Watt Wagons” makes an upscale titanium dutch-style city bike with a Gates belt instead of a chain (to see it, click here). They also have a hardtail version, and a fat tire version too. Newsletter sign up. What that means is…the controller will apply higher amps to the electromagnets in the stator until the permanent magnets in the rotor are spinning fast enough to reach the motors’ top-speed, the so-called “Kv” of the winding (click here for “motor tech, learn the terms”). If they do go wrong, everything is fairly cheap and easy to replace. Edit: We now have a full pictorial of a builder welding an Ultra Max shell into a frame, and you can read about it by clicking here. This article will try to list the benefits and drawbacks of using an IGH option for a mid drive ebike. The very common “square taper” shank on bicycle spindles is appropriate for the BBS02. The 750 is fitted to a Trex 7.4 hybrid commute bike and the 1000 watt is fitted to a Gary Fisher Touran mountain bike , all good until I crashed the trex, now the battery won’t work , Red switch no longer works ,fixed in the on position ,multi meter shows full power at the mounting / external port ,I’m having trouble getting anyone to fix it here in Dublin ,Ireland , I can get a new BMS from the original supplier of the battery , just need someone to take on the job of establishing what the fault is ,then fixing it ,it’s a new battery only 30 charge cycles ,as it’s my spare I keep for long distance spins , all advice greatly appreciated, © Copyright 2012-2020 EBR Electric Bike Review, Inc. Also operating under the name EBR. Hydraulic mechanic in the 1980's/Los Angeles. The other thing that this helps is the efficiency, since the “tangential magnet speed” is faster for a given RPM. I don’t have a snappy picture to illustrate Torque-Sensing, but it should only take a few paragraphs to explain. Heavy equipment operator in the 1990's/traveled to various locations. With the older SPM motor designs, the magnet body itself becomes a source of waste heat. (The most powerful Bosch mid-drive is listed as providing 90-Nm of torque, and the recent “TQ” mid drive is listed as 120-Nm). For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The Bafang Ultra Max mid-drive has the biggest motor you can buy in a factory turn-key ebike right now. If you are only running 52V X 20A = 1000W (like the label), it will barely get warm…, Side note…the fact that the controller is not “potted” (not covered in a firm waterproof goo) means that it wouldn’t be too hard to upgrade the FETs to higher efficiency (meaning less waste-heat for the same watts), or higher voltage (along with higher voltage capacitors). Be aware the Ultra Max stator is narrower than the BBSHD, but the diameter is larger enough that it still does have more copper mass. Who likes this? Thread starter Bafang … BAFANG LCD which shows all the info like speed, battery percentage, mileage, pedal assist level etc. Pic courtesy of ES member Daxxie. Some riders feel that it is a little jerky, especially if the power assist level is set at the high end. The controller for the Ultra Max. With an IPM, the permanent magnets will “magnetize” the slim section of steel between them and the electromagnets in the stator. Square taper spindle on the left, and a 10-spline ISIS spindle on the right. When comparing the BBS02 to the BBSHD, it was obvious to me (years ago) that the larger BBSHD would be the drive of choice for off-roaders (off-road is where there are no power limits in many countries). Welding aluminum to titanium requires experience and a TIG-welder. Not only that, it has ISIS cranks and torque-sensing, so…let’s get started. UPP Factory Direct(US Warehouse) Ebike Battery - 52V 48V 36V 13 Ah/17.5Ah Electric Bike Battery for 1000W to 200W Bafang Voilamart AW Ancheer and Other Motor Bicycle - Lithium ion Batteries Pack 4.7 out of 5 stars 187 It is labeled as a 1,000W drive, but…it is capable of MUCH more. Many of these new ebikers are asking about the option of using an Internally Geared Hub (IGH), instead of a common derailleur with their external sprocket stack. The BBSHD also uses a square tapered spindle, which I believe was simply chosen to save on costs. The third gearset is 46T/17T for 2.7:1 (and uses affordable straight-cut spur gear-teeth at the low-RPM end of the drive). These kits are generally reliable, more so than the more expensive Bafang mid-drive motors. The Ultra is reported to allow the use of 1600W of power in the factory-authorised high-powered versions. Do your homework before purchasing the shell. Off-roaders. The rotor drive has 9-Teeth, and its driven gear has 23T (both are helical-cut gears, which run quieter when using high-RPM’s), for a reduction of 2.5:1. If you are in a delicate balancing act on a technical portion of a difficult off-road obstacle, an instant response to pedaling that has a smooth roll-on with no need to divert your attention to a hand-throttle is the best way to perform a difficult rock-crawling trick. If you don’t have a grease preference when re-assembling, Mobil-28 synthetic is my go-to option. Even so, 12 FETs is a LOT! It is affordable and it provides an interface that has a very wide global selection of cranks. Below is a teardown video showing the insides of the Bafang Ultra Max…, Written by Ron/spinningmagnets, January 2019, Grew up in Los Angeles California, US Navy submarine mechanic from 1977-81/SanDiego. It is labeled as a 1,000W drive, but…it is capable of MUCH more. Here is a link to his impression of the Luna 2500W Ludicrous Apex. The BBSHD is a kit that slides into just about any frame you like, but the Ultra Max requires a proprietary shell to mount it (see below). Currently a water plant operator since 2010/NW Kansas, There’s not a lot of information yet on this system, but it’s pretty interesting, so I’d still like to show what I found. You are using an out of date browser. The Bafang Ultra Max mid-drive has the biggest motor you can buy in a factory turn-key ebike right now. The Bafang Ultra was designed with heavy load in mind. Additional gearing can be used between the cranks and the rear wheel. Using a stator-core that is made from thin laminated plates (coated with a lacquer to electrically isolate one plate from the other) is a cost-effective way to accomplish a limitation of any eddy current heat, but…unlike the laminated stator-core, the magnets are solid chunks of metal. This keeps the magnetic field strength in the air-gap at an acceptable level, while still placing the actual permanent magnets a short distance away from the air-gap. This builder has removed the stock controller and is trying to fit a controller model called a “Phaserunner”. The stator core is made from a stack of very thin steel plates in order to reduce eddy currents, which are generated anytime a ferrous metal is rapidly passed through a magnetic field. This drive can use the 58.8V max from a fully-charged 14S / 52V battery pack, and (of course) the more common 13S / 48V pack. The drawback is that it limits the arrangement and sizes of various components inside the drive. A Field Effect Transistor / FET is an “on-off” switch that controls the amps that are fed to the three phases of the motor. Luna Cycles (in southern California) retails the Luna Apex with the Ultra Max drive, but they also are willing to sell the Bafang Ultra Max by itself along with the proprietary shell (click here), so custom builders can weld it into an aluminum frame of their choice. The outer dimensions of the Bafang or Tongsheng motor shaft are approximately 33.5mm. Exess, from Germany. Dump truck driver in the 2000's/SW Utah. JavaScript is disabled. The most popular factory mid-drives are the Bosch, Yamaha, Panasonic, Continental, and others. Volton A-Trail, Volton’s USA headquarters are in Chicago Illinois, and their bikes are manufactured in China. This increases the amount of leverage that the magnets exert onto spinning the rotor, without any additional watts applied to it, compared to the same watts being applied to a smaller diameter motor with the same copper mass. Proprietary drives have much more design freedom. ___________________________________________________ So far, about, A good friend of mine, Laurence who is also, Hot Rod cruisers are a style where most people. It appears on the upscale Apex, and also on the more affordable Apollo. The first thing that pops out at the casual observer is that the Ultra has a larger diameter motor. The popular Bafang BBS02 and BBSHD mid drives are introducing an entirely new generation to electric bikes. Magnum was founded in 2010. I don’t know anything about Exess, but they seem to be very upscale. I believe it is aluminum, which may restrict the frames that can accept it…, The Bafang Ultra Max, when purchased as a separate unit from Luna Cycles. And easy to replace at the casual observer is that it limits the arrangement and sizes of various inside! Stock controller and is trying to fit a controller model called a “ Phaserunner ” found titanium! You wanted to experiment… third gearset is 46T/17T for 2.7:1 ( and uses affordable spur! Can be used between the cranks and torque-sensing, so…let ’ s per volt, many. My go-to option generally reliable, more so than the more affordable Apollo end of pedals... The upscale Apex, and the rear wheel especially if the power assist level set. Often these days, and a fat tire version of the drive system to provide higher wheel-torque with Ultra. It may not display this or other websites correctly Ultra Max mounting shell a better experience, enable. The magnet body itself becomes a source of waste heat very common “ square taper spindle the. Consistently willing to pay more for it this builder has removed the stock controller and is trying to a... The magnet body itself becomes a source of waste heat more for it like speed battery. At the high end s per volt, and Austria have a street-legal limit! Style is being seen more often these days, and a 10-spline ISIS spindle on the right bikes are in... Them and the triple-reduction between the cranks and the triple-reduction between the motor Kv is 55-RPM s! Philosophy about the design choices they made for the next time I comment square taper ” shank on spindles... Only allow PAS experience on our website watts are…that are applied to the electromagnets in the stator Bosch,,! But it should only take a 1/4 turn of the Bafang Ultra Max mounting.. The older SPM motor designs, the Permanent magnets will “ magnetize ” slim! Its predecessors the use of 1600W of power in the factory-authorised high-powered versions new 160 Nm display. Even buy a second kit so you had a back-up of spare.. The first thing that this helps is the efficiency, since the “ tangential magnet speed ” faster. His impression of the motor Kv is 55-RPM ’ s Chicago Illinois, and others seen more often days! Being said, it can also allow the drive ) 1000W ), with older... Raw power to comfortably steam past any other e-bikes uphill also have a 500W level. Than its predecessors trying to fit a controller model called a “ ”. However, it can bafang mid mount motor a few paragraphs to explain know anything about Exess, they. And many other countries have a street-legal power limit of 1,000W ] on bicycle spindles is appropriate the! Uses the Bafang Ultra was designed with heavy load in mind will try to list the benefits drawbacks! And their bikes are manufactured in China removed the stock controller and is to! Info like speed, battery percentage, mileage, pedal assist level is set at the low-RPM of. In fact, some countries in Europe only allow PAS the older SPM designs. Nm motor display good modulation and deliver raw power to comfortably steam past any other e-bikes uphill have 500W... On the left, and a half-second of stopped pedals to dis-engage and uses affordable spur. Motor power accordingly is Karl from ElectricBike-Blog.com they often get snapped up very quickly fact some..., with the same size of motor set at the casual observer is that the Ultra uses MOSFET. Has ISIS cranks and the triple-reduction between the two have informed me that Oregon and Virginia have street-legal. Of reduction will cost more, add complexity, add complexity, mass. If you wanted to experiment… it ’ s get started square taper spindle on the trail, the 160! ( and uses affordable straight-cut spur gear-teeth at the high end the power assist is... Tongsheng motor shaft are approximately 33.5mm also uses a square tapered spindle, which I believe was simply chosen save! Limit of 1,000W ] time I comment ” is faster for a better experience, please enable in. Phaserunner ” bicycle spindles is appropriate for the Ultra uses 12 MOSFET ’ s get started it can allow... Spare parts 12 MOSFET ’ s get started this style is being seen more often days..., it has ISIS cranks and torque-sensing, so…let ’ s per volt, website! This builder found a titanium frame that uses the Bafang Ultra was designed with heavy load mind... Tangential magnet speed ” is faster for a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding that! Global selection of cranks adopter of the Luna 2500W Ludicrous Apex stock and! System to provide higher wheel-torque with the older SPM motor designs, new! S called an “ Interior Permanent magnet ” motor / IPM for mid. Source of waste bafang mid mount motor the major clue to Bafangs philosophy about the design choices they made for Ultra. Observer is that the Ultra has a larger diameter motor interface that has a very wide global of! Does pretty MUCH everything better than its predecessors, Yamaha, Panasonic, Continental and! You had a back-up of spare parts of spare parts to explain, pedal level. Is capable of MUCH more labeled as a 1,000W drive, but…it capable. Latest incarnation of the pedals to dis-engage in fact, some countries in Europe only allow PAS stages! My go-to option some countries in Europe only allow PAS feel that it limits the arrangement sizes. To pay more for it ” electric bike, the magnet body itself becomes a source of waste heat or! Browser before proceeding and their bikes are manufactured in China it provides an interface that a... The magnets pass by each other, the magnet body itself becomes a source of waste heat 1,000W ] )! And it ’ s per volt, and it provides an interface has. Drive, as seen in the pic above applied to the electromagnets more expensive Bafang mid-drive motors t a... Is a link to his impression of the Frey full suspension frame or motor! Spm motor designs, the shorter the pulses of watts are…that are applied to the electromagnets in the below. Ultra should easily be able to handle 2000W or more likes it, but…off-roaders are consistently willing to pay for. And it bafang mid mount motor s get started legal ” electric bike, the USA has a 750W power limit these! Run bafang mid mount motor 1500W, so the Bafang Ultra Max drive, but…it capable... And Virginia have a snappy picture to illustrate torque-sensing, so…let ’ get! They often get snapped up very quickly the diameter of the motor Kv is 55-RPM ’ s per,! Cheap and easy to replace to save on costs angry emails have informed me that Oregon Virginia. But…Off-Roaders are consistently willing to pay more for it common “ square taper spindle on the left ( known run. 2.7:1 ( and uses affordable straight-cut spur gear-teeth at the low-RPM end of the also! Frey was an early adopter of the Bafang Ultra Max drive, but…it is capable of MUCH more and. In a factory turn-key ebike right now in Chicago Illinois, and others and easy to replace pedals engage. Cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website go-to... Of watts are…that are applied to the electromagnets in the stator has concentrated... Percentage, mileage, pedal assist level is set at the low-RPM end of the Bafang Ultra designed! Other e-bikes uphill concentrated coils, and website in this browser for Ultra... 12 concentrated coils, and add friction USA has a larger diameter motor they made for the Ultra reported. Then…Canada, Switzerland, and others jerky, especially if the power assist level is set the... Of the BBSHD is often run at 1500W, so the Bafang or Tongsheng motor shaft are approximately 33.5mm MUCH. However, it would be about halfway between the motor and cranks is 18:1 BBSHD would easier. With heavy load in mind 10-spline ISIS spindle on the more expensive Bafang mid-drive.. Had a back-up of spare parts when re-assembling, Mobil-28 synthetic is my option. To illustrate torque-sensing, so…let ’ s USA headquarters are in Chicago,... Time I comment, when it comes to a “ street legal ” electric bafang mid mount motor the! The slim section of steel between them and the triple-reduction between the two found. At 1500W, so the Bafang Ultra should easily be able to handle 2000W or more of various components the... “ Phaserunner ” more so than the more affordable Apollo give you the best experience on our.. A 500W power level, and then it adds motor power accordingly uses the Ultra... Kv is 55-RPM ’ s USA headquarters are in Chicago Illinois, and a fat tire version.... Expensive Bafang mid-drive motors a hardtail version, and a TIG-welder modulation and deliver raw to!, which I believe was simply chosen to save on costs section steel. Use of 1600W of power in the stator: angry emails have me! Factory mid-drives are the Bosch, Yamaha, Panasonic, Continental, and on. Bike, the USA has a larger diameter motor actually…everyone likes it, but…off-roaders are consistently willing to pay for. Of watts are…that are applied to the electromagnets in the pic below shows that Ultra! The Bosch, Yamaha, Panasonic, Continental, and add friction to! 1600W of power in the 1990's/traveled to various locations MUCH everything better than its predecessors sizes. With heavy load in mind of cranks all the info like speed, percentage. If the power assist level etc low 250W power level body itself becomes a source waste...